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Ground / Out Back
/ Spoofing and Free Thinking |
Coastalwader
Cast Member
Posts: 935
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 06:41 AM
Ok, we all know that certain names and potentially certain specifics won't be used on these forums. Keep that in mind while reading this post, and if you reply, remember, no names will be used.
IP spoofing. How easy is it?
Well, it is done all day everyday. Anytime you get a forwarded virus, chances are about 99.99% the IP was spoofed. Most spammers and porn sites specialize in spoofing IP addresses. That's one of the main ways they stay in business and continue sending out the millions of pieces of spam mail on a daily basis. All of their random email spam typically originates from spoofed IP's. Anybody that has been around the internet for any length of time knows this is a huge problem. But, let's discuss some "things" that are a quite a bit different in regards to matters here.
First, what is being discussed is not "spam". I've seen lots of posts that say "wow, I've been getting that for months now, I didn't know it was because of "blank". Most likely, it wasn't.
These specific emails are not the generic porn emails that we all get. We aren't talking typical penis enlargement, viagra, and all the other stuff we all see. These are very specific. They will typically say in the email line something like "your username and password" or "verifying your username and password". Inside the body of the email is the verification of the "sign up" information. It tells you when you signed up and what your username and password are. The user name, picked by the person signing up and in these cases are a derivative of your email address or a bulletin board screen name.
Does this specific type of spam get spoofed. Yes, it can and often does. BUT, what are the chances that these are spoofed at random considering the IP that was logged as the one logging in to perform the sign up and who specifically was targeted? I'd say ABSOLUTELY NONE. My opinion.
Maybe some of you noticed that "elsewhere" there was a question in a technical oriented forum about IP spoofing. Note the date and time of my post and go check it out. Look who answered the question. None of the technical hosts of the forum even touched it. That is, before this post. I just checked again, no response. They have in fact answered questions that came after. Again, notice who did answer. Very telling. I think they have some smart guys in their tech forum! There is random IP spoofing and then, there is this. Even they obviously know the difference.
So, in my opinion, we have only two possibilities. One...the obvious...the IP owner. Two, someone who is very computer savvy wants to stir stuff up. Again, the IP used against the targets leave no other rational possibility in my mind. If I'm missing another rational explanation, let me know.
I keep asking myself....Self I ask, what would YOU do if this allegation had been made against you and you knew you were innocent? Would I contact the people who had gotten them and say, "hey, this ain't from me, please let me see what you got and let's all figure out what's happening here"....OR... would I contact the owner of the message board software and try to intimidate them into removing my name? The bottom line here is there is a past history of cordial but frank email communication between Crank and the ISP numbers owner. This is WAY beyond all the perpetuated lies and games the has been playing. This stuff is going to the states Attorney Generals office. Would you not at least make a personal attempt if you were innocent to work with the other party to try to get to the bottom of this?
Which leads to....
What if I knew I didn't send them but under the circumstances I could guess who did? What would I do then?
Could this all have originated outside of elsewhere? Sure, it could have. Someone could be playing big time games and trying to really stir stuff up.
Which gets back to.....
The reactions to this don't fit into my comfort zone of how this logically should have been handled. They do however fit in with how far some seem to be willing to go to maintain certain stations in the internet world. They also fit in with how far some are willing to go to seek a twisted form of vengeance. I know we have discussed the problem of logic and elsewhere ad nauseum, but this to me is a different level.
I don't think I need to tell the rational among us how serious anything involving certain segments of porn are.
This is very serious stuff and the reactions to it are to me the most damning in regards to whose lap this is all going to land in.
As always, just my opinion.
King Unca Bubba Lord DisneyTex
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Ahnalira
Cast Member
Posts: 432
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 09:13 AM
I'd like to step forward and join the "free thinking" group; >)
To me, the question isn't "Was a wrong done? or even, "Who done it?" To me, the questions are:
1)Does it serve some greater wellbeing for me to involve myself in the process of ending this activity or would it better serve for me to treat this activity as a blip on the screen of wellbeing and ignore it? and
2)If I decide it does serve to become involved, how do I do that and maintain a happy, open-hearted stance?
The one thing I am sure of through experience is that acting from righteous outrage or feelings of victimization or any other number of highy emotional perspectives only reduces my capacity to be the person I aspire and practice to be. Personally, being happy is still more important to me than being right.
So, is it possible to take action (like notifying appropriate internet authorities) and be unattached to outcomes (ie who did it and what happens to them)? I believe it is. Is it possible to ignore the offensive material and focus on creative pursuits, Disney, and other Life affirming activities as a solution? I believe in that as well. Indeed, it is my personal belief that focusing through intention/attitude/feeling tone is far more powerful than action.
Anyone remember the TarBaby in Songs of the South... B'rer Rabbit decided to give that rascal his come-uppance for being a rude and discourteous fella, and he did with all four "paws" - ending up stuck in tar. The moral of that story was clear enough even for me to get: Ol Brer could have gone about his happy day; instead he got caught up in the emotion of the moment and ended up trapped (TarBaby was a trap set by Brer Fox and Brer Bear) for the "pickin" I'd like to think Brer Rabbit could have decided to give that Tar Baby the benefit of the doubt (maybe his throat hurt or nobody taught him manners... or, maybe he wasn't even capable of speech; >) and decide to either "teach" him through example and/or spread some good will around that Briar Patch for him.
There's my free thinkin' for y'all
Ahnalira
Grace finds beauty everywhere. Grace is my best friend.
Meet The Our Laughing Place Travel Pixies
Everybody's got a Laughing Place... we'll help you find yours!
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 09:50 AM
I wasn't that PO'd about the smut campaign, as I'd seen that tactic before.
I was once an unwelcome conservative voice on an ultra-liberal website, and had my mailbox filled with such an incredible volume of garbage that I contacted Yahoo & closed the account. Now I generally delete, report as Spam, block the addy, and move on.
I always use Yahoo boxes for internet addys. My Outlook boxes are never shared in 'public', and still get penetrated on occasion. Anything illegal or offensive I report to my ISP.
Having said that, I can understand the outrage of those of us who aren't as calloused as I may be, or who have children who might open an e-mail and get a dose of the seamier side of life.
Some of the mails have innocent stuff in the subject line like 'Hi, how have you been?' from 'Annie' or 'Mary' or 'Bob'. When you open them, the first thing you see is a close-up view of either the Washington Monument or the Grand Canyon.
If my kid or some other gentle soul stumbled upon that, and it had been maliciously sent to me, I'd do my best to ferret out the culprit and nail them.
Otherwise, I agree with Ahnalira. I blow 'em off (no pun) and move on.
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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Mike
Cast Member
Posts: 318
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 09:54 AM
Ajax, I'm not going to be able to visit Washington nor Arizona without a different mental picture form now on!
Somebody there is playing with a kinked slinky!
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Coastalwader
Cast Member
Posts: 935
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 10:03 AM
Ahnalira, you
always bring up some great points and awesome food
for thought.
I keep thinking about all we know that has never been posted publicly. I think you would agree that it would be eye opening stuff and potentially very damaging to a certain place. One of the reasons it has never seen the light of day is because of some of the reasons you discussed. Let's move on, focus on other things, the goal was never to bring the RCH down, it was for them to leave us out of the charade they are trying to pull off. Just wanted them to drop the crap. That seemed to be slowly happening.
I think there is a difference here. Some of this stuff they throw you UNDER the jail for. In recent months we've seen headlines where people were being arrested for subscribing to groups like those that people here were subscribed to.
I hear ya on the focus thing, but I think the right steps are being taken to assemble the "stuff" and then send it on to have the right people deal with it. I think that requires a certain focus right now and then we can move on....again.
I guess what I'm thinking...is this the "same old same old" that we have been dealing with since august?
I don't know.
King Unca Bubba Lord DisneyTex
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AmyA
Cast Member
Posts: 104
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 10:05 AM
quote:
Ajax wrote:
When you open them, the first thing you see is a close-up view of either the Washington Monument or the Grand Canyon.
OMG--I think I may convulse with laughter.
AmyA
I am a peon who has been kicked to the curb
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Robey
Cast Member
Posts: 1023
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 11:18 AM
My stance on this:
I have been receiving these emails for quite a long time. And I did exactly what Ajax did. Delete, report, etc. This changed when I started getting way too many. Frankly I was tired of getting 85% trash that I had to "take care of" before I could even read my normal email. It got ridiculous. So my initial reaction was due to the volume, not the content. (didnt bother opening them. After people here noticed that it was coming from a particular IP addy, I started paying attention. In order to get the details, I had to open the email. (Gads!) I have gone thru all of my deleted emails and the current emails and harvested necessaary info and forwarded appropriately. This stuff is downright sick.
As far as I am concerned, its over and done. I will put no emotion into it all. I will treat it as a task that needs to be done. Simple. If it continues, it will be at his/her peril. I will not get involved in any way other than to forward to my Atty Generals Office. (which is what I am supposed to do)
That is not to say that I don't have an opinion, merely that I won't expend any emotion on it. (Anger, Rage, whatever) I consider the originator to be extremely sick, always have. So in that sense, nothing has changed.
For me, this has been very revealing. Especially the reaction from people that have spent years falsely accusing others. Now the table has turned, the difference is that these are not simple accusations. The proof can be easily obtained and simply sent to appropriate law representatives and requires no additional input from me. That's the way it should be. No screaming, yelling, slamming, etc. Simple stuff. Simple keyboard manipulation and its on its way to Justice. I like that.
I always wondered why somebody didn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody. --Lily Tomlin
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Ahnalira
Cast Member
Posts: 432
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 11:18 AM
I'm sure that if I had a child with access to my computer, I would take whatever action necessary to keep their eyes from some of the emails I've received. They'll have plenty of time to discover their own preferences as they mature (and perish the thought they should tell their therapist it all started on Ahnalira's computer; >)
For a time in my "Life as a Psychologist" I was the director for programs of both sexually-abused children and sexual offenders. It created some interesting paradoxes in which I had to find personal alignment before I could successfully provide treatment for either group. Holding a person accountable for their behavior without condemning them is a fine line, n'est-ce pas? (I think I am still practicing, personally) To be able to help a person realize their potential for healing (no matter whether they are healing from being done-to or being the doer-toer) requires the ability to see and appreciate them already healed, imho.
just a few more ramblings from a free-thinker; >)
Ahnalira
Ahnalira
Grace finds beauty everywhere. Grace is my best friend.
Meet The Our Laughing Place Travel Pixies
Everybody's got a Laughing Place... we'll help you find yours!
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TrpltJanie
Cast Member
Posts: 1661
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 11:27 AM
Each person has a limit to what they can take and some people fight back so others wouldn't have to deal with the crap in the future if the offender chose to move on to the next victim.
I don't appreciate this method of revenge because it is immature and cowardly. Granted that it might make the offender happy that she/he managed to *irYKWte* the victim but rest assured that this kind of gloating is short lived.
Funny--if the person is innocent of the *crimes*, she/he would apologize profusely over the fact that their IP was used to attack someone else and do some major fanny kicking to get some answers.
Enuff said.
Janie
The Curb Kicker
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Mary
Cast Member
Posts: 465
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 11:29 AM
quote:
Ahnalira wrote:
(and perish the thought they should tell their therapist it all started on Ahnalira's computer; >)
It's ALWAYS the mother. 
Mary
First Mate, Good Ship Stickey Mickey and Keeper of the Ships Log
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Robey
Cast Member
Posts: 1023
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 12:04 PM
I agree Janie.
Your 'revenge' response is right on. Very immature and childlike.
As for the response to the defense of being spoofed-well first of all I know better. But more importantly, so do the law enforcement agencies that handle it. They know how to identify and track. So why get our panties in a bunch and get all frustrated over it? Give them the emails and let them do their job, that's all.
And as for the reaction, it isn't appropriate for
the accusation being made. So the response alone is
very telling. 
I kinda get a kick out of it. In fact I get a good
laugh out of it.
As I said, I know better.
So go on get happy- as Ahna said.
It's all good.
I always wondered why somebody didn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody. --Lily Tomlin
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Robin
Cast Member
Posts: 939
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 01:07 PM
quote:
Ajax wrote:
Some of the mails have innocent stuff in the subject line like 'Hi, how have you been?' from 'Annie' or 'Mary' or 'Bob'. When you open them, the first thing you see is a close-up view of either the Washington Monument or the Grand Canyon.
I like to refer to this genre as 'things that would make a gynocologist blush'.
A few more points to think about. (not necessarily specifc to 'this' spam)
What happens when a person is being so inundated with this type of mail, that they are having trouble receiving their real mail. (We're not talking two or three messages at times.) Some of these folks are still on dial up connections.
Do you ban you kids from using the computer? Some of these types of messages will launch you right to the porn site. Now that URL is in your history.
As to my opinion on what to do...
If there is evidence of a crime, you report it to the proper authorities to deal with. They can supeona the ISP and website logs, and verify whether or not the accused did it. Then it's up to them to decide to prosecute.
Isn't it our civil duty to report when a crime has been committed against us? If not for ourselves then to prevent it from happening to the 'next guy'. Or worse, escalating. If I can get away with A, maybe I can get away with B.
I toss my cookies for Disney.
I wonder what inspired this new Disney T-shirt? "I'm right. You're wrong. Any Questions?"
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Robey
Cast Member
Posts: 1023
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 01:18 PM
Exactly Robin..Exactly!
My child DID see it. Thus, my motivation to invest my time in this matter. That and your statement:
quote:
Isn't it our civil duty to report when a crime has been committed against us? If not for ourselves then to prevent it from happening to the 'next guy'. Or worse, escalating. If I can get away with A, maybe I can get away with B.
It really is that simple for me.
I am a known advocate in Massachusetts and New Hampshire for children's rights and the abuse of those rights. Prior to this, the impact involved adults. Now children have been impacted. Not a good thing.... NOT a good thing. NOT!
But as I said before, let the appropriate authorities do their job. Only the truely guilty parties have to worry. Not the "spoofed" ones... the real ones.
I always wondered why somebody didn't do something about that. Then I realized I was somebody. --Lily Tomlin
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Crank
Administrator
Posts: 1957
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 01:39 PM
Just a quick note:
It is a Federal Offense to have more than three instances of "child pornogarphy" or information leading to the "sexual exploitation of children" on a single computer.
Logic dictates that these particular offenses be documented by the appropriate officials to protect one's self as soon as possible.
If that make me a "bad" person so be it. I'll take bad "here" over good in prison anyday.
ETA: AND I'll take PROOFING over SPOOFING anyday!
[Edited by Crank]
I like persons better than principles, and I like persons with no principles better than anything else in the world.
Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891
BOYCOTT FRENCH TOAST, GERMAN SAUSAGE AND BELGIAN CHOCOLATES
Crank-->
All Content is © the Poster and is to be considered Intellectual Property. All Rights Reserved. Though Brilliant, Breathtaking and Extrememly Well Written the Content contained herein is Opinion and Opinion only.
ib4cruzn at charter dot net
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TrpltJanie
Cast Member
Posts: 1661
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 03:14 PM
quote:
Robey wrote:
Exactly Robin..Exactly!
My child DID see it. Thus, my motivation to invest my time in this matter. That and your statement:
So did mine. That was one of the reason why I went ballistic.
Robin was VERY correct abput me having to wade through my e-mails along the extra effort I had to make in BLOCKING the senders' addys when I found the porn spam. These e-mails DO NOT say ANYTHING about porn whatsoever UNTIL I open the e-mails and see those pictures.
Crank wrote
quote:
If that make me a "bad" person so be it. I'll take bad "here" over good in prison anyday.
Ditto. I have NOTHING to hide except for that box of chocolates.
Janie
The Curb Kicker
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annie
Cast Member
Posts: 321
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 03:18 PM
quote:
Ajax wrote:
Some of the mails have innocent stuff in the subject line like 'Hi, how have you been?' from 'Annie' or 'Mary' or 'Bob'. When you open them, the first thing you see is a close-up view of either the Washington Monument or the Grand Canyon.
I'd like to state emphatically that I've never sent Ajax close-ups of any tourist attractions whatsoever .
FWIW when I got porn emails (and yes, they were the someone signed up kind, not just spam) I didn't do anything but delete them. But at the time I had no reason to believe it was anything other than some kind of glitch somewhere causing the problem (maybe I'm naive?) and honestly I still think I'm far enough off the radar here that I have not been targeted this way (I hope, anyway!) If I thought someone had maliciously signed me up for pornography I would definitely want to protect myself by asking for help from at least my ISP, or even law enforcement.
annie
"Are the fires of Hell a-glowing? Is the grisly reaper mowing? Who can provide the world with the answer to these pressing questions?"
"The candy man can," Rumsfeld added grimly.
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Mary
Cast Member
Posts: 465
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 03:34 PM
quote:
annie wrote:
I'd like to state emphatically that I've never sent Ajax close-ups of any tourist attractions whatsoever .
Damn, he must be referring to that picture of me & the Mayor of Main Street that I sent him so he would know me for the meet.
Ajax, you're not REALLY going to cause trouble for me because of that, are you?
Mary
First Mate, Good Ship Stickey Mickey and Keeper of the Ships Log
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-13-03 03:43 PM
Mary wrote-
quote:
Ajax, you're not REALLY going to cause trouble for me because of that, are you?
No maam! Not for a second! I never turn on
a drinkin' buddy, especially one as lovely and charming
as you!
BTW, if I could have pulled it off without haveng S & L kick my butt or melting down even further, I'd have had more Pina Coladas. Those at the Poly are the best, imo.
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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Common
Ground / Out Back
/ Spoofing and Free Thinking |
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