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Common
Ground / Out Back
/ War?
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 09:59 AM
Dab wrote-
quote:
VB, did you pay attention to the results of the voting in FL after all the media left? After all is said and done, there was no need for the supreme court.
The combined media investigation into the Florida election found that only if the 'Palm Beach Standard'ie; hanging chads, dimpled chads,etc had been used, would Gore have won Florida. Under every other count he lost. Then it was quickly forgotten.
The 'illegitimate prez' gambit is a red herring used by Bush haters to immediately put his supporters on defense. Don't fall for it.
As long as we live in a representative republic instead of a pure democracy, anomalies like the '00 presidential election are going to occur.
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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tomato
Cast Member
Posts: 14
Registered: Dec 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 10:01 AM
If we had another chance to stop Hitler before he destroyed half of Europe we would not hesitate for one minute. I believe we are the only country with the capability to effectively eliminate Saddam and we must do it. I think the senior bodyguard that just defected convinced me that Saddam must be stopped.
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 10:08 AM
tomato wrote-
quote:
I think the senior bodyguard that just defected convinced me that Saddam must be stopped.
You have to wonder which member of his family will die on his behalf. Last August when Bush began to talk seriously about stopping Iraq, Saddam had his diplomats world-wide send their families home for their own 'protection'. Knowong that their wife and children are under his thumb keeps them from jumping the fence.
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 10:12 AM
The US did NOT get involved in WWI or WWII until we were directly affected. In those wars we (and our allies) came out the clear winners.
Since then there's been Korea (who won that one?), Vietnam (again, who won?) and Iraq (Bush Sr's war). In all of the "wars" after the big ones where we were directly attacked, the US's involvement was costly and didn't accomplish a damn thing except to make money for a few enterprises here in the States that were set up to finance such wars.
This next war will be just the same: alot of money spent, alot of lives lost, and no one will remember 25 years from now what it was all about in the first place.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 10:15 AM
quote:
Ajax wrote:
You have to wonder which member of his family will die on his behalf. Last August when Bush began to talk seriously about stopping Iraq, Saddam had his diplomats world-wide send their families home for their own 'protection'. Knowong that their wife and children are under his thumb keeps them from jumping the fence.
And this is our business because.....? We cannot and should not dictate to other countries how they should run their countries. Refuse aid? Yes. Blockade? Of course. Give them an ultimatum where, if they DON'T stop the inhuman treatment of people they can expect NO assistance from anyone. And mean it.
However I must take a stance that we cannot expect every other country in this world to follow our own democratic society. It's arrogant and insulting to them, and it's costly and just plain useless for us.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 10:28 AM
LL wrote-
quote:
And this is our business because.....? We cannot and should not dictate to other countries how they should run their countries. Refuse aid? Yes. Blockade? Of course. Give them an ultimatum where, if they DON'T stop the inhuman treatment of people they can expect NO assistance from anyone. And mean it.
I don't think I infered anywhere that it was our business. It's just another example of how he's governs with terror.
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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hnt
Cast Member
Posts: 33
Registered: Jan 2003
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Posted 02-06-03 10:43 AM
Dab, if you read my post I said the Brits on the message boards I post at don't want war. At the end of my post I gave more specific figures showing that some people in the UK do want war. Also, I at no point mentioned where the oil came from. My point related to economics - the worldwide price of oil and availability is crucial to the US economy.
British troops were in Rwanda. So were troops from other countries. There seems to be this perception that no country in Europe has ever done anything for anyone else. Its untrue and unfair. There were troops from several European countries in Bosnia, in the Gulf, in many conflicts. We have this little organisation called NATO that we all contribute to.
also, I am sick of the WW2 thing too - I have seen it used in many arguments that Europe should be incredibly grateful that america decided to step in. People seem to forget that America decided to do nothing, both times, until it was directly affected. So I find it hard to believe that America 'would not hesitate to stop another hitler'.
I know people who are at risk of being called up. British troops have been sent to the Gulf and reservists are being calledup. At no point in my post did I denigrate the efforts of our armed services. They do an important, vital job. However, the leadership is what I am questioning.
I wonder why I care about this thread so much. We all have strong opinions, as it is such an important issue. I feel that most of us, including me, would not change our opinions because of an internet debate. This really is an issue where we will have to agree to disagree
[Edited by hnt]
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fantayzya
Cast Member
Posts: 586
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 10:43 AM
Do you folks realize just how much we ARE under attack and have been for years? Oh it started out subtle, but it's there non-the-less.
Ever drive through Dearborn? (by Detroit for those from outside Michigan) Ever really thought about all the corporations operating on US soil paying little or no taxes (at least comparatively) raking in the profits and shipping them right back to whatever patch of sand they came here from? How about Asian influence? You might be surprised at just how little industry is really US owned these days.
Is this reciprocated? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!!! The US is taxed up the wahzoo to open operations in other countries and from my ex's uncle who was involved in Chrysler's start up in Beijing, it was/is required that at least 2 of the top 3 corporate positions are held by a govt appointed Chinese man. Effectively out-voting anyone the US owned (at least then) corporation might relay their wishes to.
The worst part is that we're holding the door open and even helping them move in. Sadaam need not lob missles from there, he, and the Saudi's, and the Chinese, Japanese, and many others, have a very strong foothold right here, all with generous shipping privilages.
In fact, they don't even need missles. Heck if they all decided to get together, they probably own us already.
I'm not neccessarily talking here about the individual who wishes to make a 'better life' for themselves by immigrating here, though I think we're way to lax in that area too, I'm talking about foreign based operations, still operating FROM their homeland but in the US. You could argue it's US job opportunities, but it's also advantages that Joe Blow from the US doesn't get to open that US owned corporation of his own and provide those jobs and keep the revenues here.
I'll admit I don't have actual facts backed up by CNN etc. This is just what I've been watching and forming opinions about over several years, based on things happening to friends/family and what I've seen happening at work in regard to NAFTA and all the globalization everyone seems so gung ho about. Feel free to discuss, prove me wrong or disregard completely. I only presented this as more food for thought.
Personally, while I know it'll never happen, I'm so tired of the prevailing 'Big Bad US is so arrogant and aggressive' unless there is a hand being held out wanting money, food or whatever, that I wish we'd just bring every serviceman on foreign soil back home, put such strict requirements for immigration to the US on that it would be very difficult to get in other than for a vacation-limited in length of course, tax the caa caa out of anyone who even thinks of opening a branch of any foreign based corporation here, as well as even higher tariffs on shipping of goods and try a bit of isolationism ourselves for awhile. Oh and cut off the foreign aid stuff too. We have starving kids here to feed. (and jobs to train their deadbeat parents for so they can feed them properly themselves.) As LL says work on our own problems.
After we get rid of that butthead in Iraq that is.
(sigh) I feel better now that I've vented...
"One small drop of water raises the sea" Marian in Dinotopia
"One who grows does not grow old"-Texas Bix Bender, writer
"Look Mommy," he whispered. "The butterflies are dancing!" At that moment, inside my soul somewhere, all the tumblers fell into place."-Kathy Storfer, "A Dig in the Dirt," Green Prints Spring 1997
Visit WDW with my son Nate and I at Fantayzya and Nate See the World
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Captain
Cast Member
Posts: 18
Registered: Nov 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 10:48 AM
When you talk about "American lives" being on the line, you are talking of mine. I have a vested interest in this issue and my country and I take its defense very seriously. I am a soldier. It is my job, my calling, my duty and my life.
Our President, my Commander-in-Chief, has made his point. We as a country do not need the blessing of any foreign power or assembly, to sanction actions we take in the defense of our nation or its interests. While we welcome their approval and support we do not need it. Those that say we are going alone are wrong. The numbers of nations that support us clearly indicate that we are not alone in this action.
Saddam Hussein poses a clear and present danger to not only our country and our way of life but also the rest of the world. This "leader" has lied to the world. He has deliberately defied the stipulations he agreed to at the Peace Table at Sawan Airfield in 1991. He has not disarmed. He has continued to develop chemical and biological agents. He has continued to acquire and produce means of weaponizing them. He has continued to produce and acquire means of delivering them. He has continued to produce and acquire long-range missile systems that under the cease-fire agreement he is specifically prohibited from possessing.
I am certain that once this war starts you will see what these weapons can do. Our stated goal is regime change. Saddam must go. He knows this. What is holding him back now from using them this time? Saddam did not use these weapons in the first gulf war because he knew that by doing so he was signing his own death warrant. He will show no restraint this time. I am reasonably sure that he has already issued contingency orders to his subordinate commanders on when and how to employ these weapons.
Some would say that our "aggression" would kill innocent civilians. This is the argument of the disillusioned and confused. The man that gives the order to employ these weapons will be the culprit responsible for their death, not the United States or our Allies. In 1988, Saddam Hussein ordered the employment of chemical weapons against his own people, and his own troops in order to stem the tide of Iranian forces during their war. In 1991, Saddam again used chemical weapons to repress the Kurdish uprising in Northern Iraq. He has done so in the past and will do so again.
You who say that the United States is the greatest offender of Human Rights, I offer in retort Germany, 1939; “the final answer to the Jewish Question”. Over 6 million people died in the name of ethnic cleansing.
You who say we need more evidence, we need more time; what more need you see? Will it be enough when your children are dead? Will it be enough when your life is torn apart? Do you need to see thousands of dead or sick people and a smile on Hussein’s face? Do you need to see Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein standing on a stage and shaking hands? If that is the case, then I am glad you are not in charge of our country, for I would assuredly see you in hell.
The Armed Forces are ready. Some of us will die and we know that. This is our life, our chosen profession. Do not be mislead, every member of your Armed Forces understands what is asked of them. Every service member is aware of what we do and why. Article 1 of our Code of Conduct states “I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.” Anyone that does not agree with that statement is given the chance to leave the military without prejudice. Our non-negotiable contract with you, the American people, is to fight and win our nation’s wars. We do not exist to support the local economies of military bases; we do not exist to look good on parade. We exist but for one purpose and one purpose only.
But that is just my opinion. And we all know that opinions are like assholes. Everybody's smells like shit except your own.
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fantayzya
Cast Member
Posts: 586
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 10:54 AM
{{{{Captain}}}}}}}
Thank you to you and all our servicepeople from someone who has a dear friend who just returned from Kuwait (3 weeks ago) and had his retirement set for March denied after 20 plus years of service, due to the status of the military.
Lori
"One small drop of water raises the sea" Marian in Dinotopia
"One who grows does not grow old"-Texas Bix Bender, writer
"Look Mommy," he whispered. "The butterflies are dancing!" At that moment, inside my soul somewhere, all the tumblers fell into place."-Kathy Storfer, "A Dig in the Dirt," Green Prints Spring 1997
Visit WDW with my son Nate and I at Fantayzya and Nate See the World
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 10:59 AM
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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annie
Cast Member
Posts: 321
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 11:18 AM
quote:
hnt wrote:
We all have strong opinions, as it is such an important issue. I feel that most of us, including me, would not change our opinions because of an internet debate. This really is an issue where we will have to agree to disagree
I'm glad we have this thread. I will freely admit that I've been known to change my opinion on an issue based on arguments made during an interent debate. This particular discussion has really given me a lot to think about.
For me I think it's come down to head vs. heart. I understand the reasons behind the US taking action, and I agree with most of those reasons. But between my strong pacifist leanings and my fear of terrorist retaliation, I can't get to the point where I fully support that action.
Keep talking, everyone!
annie
"Are the fires of Hell a-glowing? Is the grisly reaper mowing? Who can provide the world with the answer to these pressing questions?"
"The candy man can," Rumsfeld added grimly.
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Francine
Super Moderator
Posts: 1309
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 11:33 AM
This is a good discussion. I think it is important, and has stayed respectful. Thank you for that.
Please, in all the discussing, remember to pray for peace, okay?
Francine
Come and visit my other home on the internet Our Laughing Place
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Crank
Administrator
Posts: 1957
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 12:17 PM
I like persons better than principles, and I like persons with no principles better than anything else in the world.
Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891
BOYCOTT FRENCH TOAST, GERMAN SAUSAGE AND BELGIAN CHOCOLATES
Crank-->
All Content is © the Poster and is to be considered Intellectual Property. All Rights Reserved. Though Brilliant, Breathtaking and Extrememly Well Written the Content contained herein is Opinion and Opinion only.
ib4cruzn at charter dot net
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TrpltJanie
Cast Member
Posts: 1661
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 12:22 PM
quote:
Francine wrote:
This is a good discussion. I think it is important, and has stayed respectful. Thank you for that.
Please, in all the discussing, remember to pray for peace, okay?
Francine
Francine--
I've been praying 24/7 for peace because I do not want to hand a world that is torn apart from fighting, people grabbing for power, and etc to my kids and tell them: "Well, here it is and we're sorry that we f**ked it up."
(sighing) 
Janie
The Curb Kicker
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Crank
Administrator
Posts: 1957
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 12:30 PM
quote:
hnt wrote:
also, I am sick of the WW2 thing too - I have seen it used in many arguments that Europe should be incredibly grateful that america decided to step in. People seem to forget that America decided to do nothing, both times, until it was directly affected. So I find it hard to believe that America 'would not hesitate to stop another hitler'.
Actually, hnt, the US was involved in the war over a year earlier as witnessed by the huge volume of materials, vehicles, aircraft (and pilots) supplied to the effort.
Folks, one thing we all seem to be missing here is that it is NOT the US vs Iraq. The United Nations exists explicitely for conflicts such as this. When and if there is a war it will be a unified effort enforcing unified opinions/conclusions.
When Iraq invaded Kuwait did they do so with a unified consortium? No.
A majority vote will decide when and if there is war. It is NOT the US vs Iraq but the UN vs Iraq.
I believe in light of the information the US has in it's posession, it has shown substantial restraint.
I like persons better than principles, and I like persons with no principles better than anything else in the world.
Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891
BOYCOTT FRENCH TOAST, GERMAN SAUSAGE AND BELGIAN CHOCOLATES
Crank-->
All Content is © the Poster and is to be considered Intellectual Property. All Rights Reserved. Though Brilliant, Breathtaking and Extrememly Well Written the Content contained herein is Opinion and Opinion only.
ib4cruzn at charter dot net
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Crank
Administrator
Posts: 1957
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 12:40 PM
quote:
Captain wrote:
When you talk about "American lives" being on the line, you are talking of mine. I have a vested interest in this issue and my country and I take its defense very seriously. I am a soldier. It is my job, my calling, my duty and my life.
Our President, my Commander-in-Chief, has made his point. We as a country do not need the blessing of any foreign power or assembly, to sanction actions we take in the defense of our nation or its interests. While we welcome their approval and support we do not need it. Those that say we are going alone are wrong. The numbers of nations that support us clearly indicate that we are not alone in this action.
Saddam Hussein poses a clear and present danger to not only our country and our way of life but also the rest of the world. This "leader" has lied to the world. He has deliberately defied the stipulations he agreed to at the Peace Table at Sawan Airfield in 1991. He has not disarmed. He has continued to develop chemical and biological agents. He has continued to acquire and produce means of weaponizing them. He has continued to produce and acquire means of delivering them. He has continued to produce and acquire long-range missile systems that under the cease-fire agreement he is specifically prohibited from possessing.
I am certain that once this war starts you will see what these weapons can do. Our stated goal is regime change. Saddam must go. He knows this. What is holding him back now from using them this time? Saddam did not use these weapons in the first gulf war because he knew that by doing so he was signing his own death warrant. He will show no restraint this time. I am reasonably sure that he has already issued contingency orders to his subordinate commanders on when and how to employ these weapons.
Some would say that our "aggression" would kill innocent civilians. This is the argument of the disillusioned and confused. The man that gives the order to employ these weapons will be the culprit responsible for their death, not the United States or our Allies. In 1988, Saddam Hussein ordered the employment of chemical weapons against his own people, and his own troops in order to stem the tide of Iranian forces during their war. In 1991, Saddam again used chemical weapons to repress the Kurdish uprising in Northern Iraq. He has done so in the past and will do so again.
You who say that the United States is the greatest offender of Human Rights, I offer in retort Germany, 1939; “the final answer to the Jewish Question”. Over 6 million people died in the name of ethnic cleansing.
You who say we need more evidence, we need more time; what more need you see? Will it be enough when your children are dead? Will it be enough when your life is torn apart? Do you need to see thousands of dead or sick people and a smile on Hussein’s face? Do you need to see Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein standing on a stage and shaking hands? If that is the case, then I am glad you are not in charge of our country, for I would assuredly see you in hell.
The Armed Forces are ready. Some of us will die and we know that. This is our life, our chosen profession. Do not be mislead, every member of your Armed Forces understands what is asked of them. Every service member is aware of what we do and why. Article 1 of our Code of Conduct states “I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.” Anyone that does not agree with that statement is given the chance to leave the military without prejudice. Our non-negotiable contract with you, the American people, is to fight and win our nation’s wars. We do not exist to support the local economies of military bases; we do not exist to look good on parade. We exist but for one purpose and one purpose only.
But that is just my opinion. And we all know that opinions are like assholes. Everybody's smells like shit except your own.
oo-RAH!
This American appreciates your dedication.
Thank you, sincerely.
I like persons better than principles, and I like persons with no principles better than anything else in the world.
Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891
BOYCOTT FRENCH TOAST, GERMAN SAUSAGE AND BELGIAN CHOCOLATES
Crank-->
All Content is © the Poster and is to be considered Intellectual Property. All Rights Reserved. Though Brilliant, Breathtaking and Extrememly Well Written the Content contained herein is Opinion and Opinion only.
ib4cruzn at charter dot net
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tomato
Cast Member
Posts: 14
Registered: Dec 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 01:02 PM
quote:
Captain wrote:
When you talk about "American lives" being on the line, you are talking of mine. I have a vested interest in this issue and my country and I take its defense very seriously. I am a soldier. It is my job, my calling, my duty and my life.
Our President, my Commander-in-Chief, has made his point. We as a country do not need the blessing of any foreign power or assembly, to sanction actions we take in the defense of our nation or its interests. While we welcome their approval and support we do not need it. Those that say we are going alone are wrong. The numbers of nations that support us clearly indicate that we are not alone in this action.
Saddam Hussein poses a clear and present danger to not only our country and our way of life but also the rest of the world. This "leader" has lied to the world. He has deliberately defied the stipulations he agreed to at the Peace Table at Sawan Airfield in 1991. He has not disarmed. He has continued to develop chemical and biological agents. He has continued to acquire and produce means of weaponizing them. He has continued to produce and acquire means of delivering them. He has continued to produce and acquire long-range missile systems that under the cease-fire agreement he is specifically prohibited from possessing.
I am certain that once this war starts you will see what these weapons can do. Our stated goal is regime change. Saddam must go. He knows this. What is holding him back now from using them this time? Saddam did not use these weapons in the first gulf war because he knew that by doing so he was signing his own death warrant. He will show no restraint this time. I am reasonably sure that he has already issued contingency orders to his subordinate commanders on when and how to employ these weapons.
Some would say that our "aggression" would kill innocent civilians. This is the argument of the disillusioned and confused. The man that gives the order to employ these weapons will be the culprit responsible for their death, not the United States or our Allies. In 1988, Saddam Hussein ordered the employment of chemical weapons against his own people, and his own troops in order to stem the tide of Iranian forces during their war. In 1991, Saddam again used chemical weapons to repress the Kurdish uprising in Northern Iraq. He has done so in the past and will do so again.
You who say that the United States is the greatest offender of Human Rights, I offer in retort Germany, 1939; “the final answer to the Jewish Question”. Over 6 million people died in the name of ethnic cleansing.
You who say we need more evidence, we need more time; what more need you see? Will it be enough when your children are dead? Will it be enough when your life is torn apart? Do you need to see thousands of dead or sick people and a smile on Hussein’s face? Do you need to see Osama Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein standing on a stage and shaking hands? If that is the case, then I am glad you are not in charge of our country, for I would assuredly see you in hell.
The Armed Forces are ready. Some of us will die and we know that. This is our life, our chosen profession. Do not be mislead, every member of your Armed Forces understands what is asked of them. Every service member is aware of what we do and why. Article 1 of our Code of Conduct states “I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.” Anyone that does not agree with that statement is given the chance to leave the military without prejudice. Our non-negotiable contract with you, the American people, is to fight and win our nation’s wars. We do not exist to support the local economies of military bases; we do not exist to look good on parade. We exist but for one purpose and one purpose only.
But that is just my opinion. And we all know that opinions are like assholes. Everybody's smells like shit except your own.
Thank you for your service to your country. I will be praying for you!!!
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Robin
Cast Member
Posts: 939
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 01:06 PM
quote:
Captain wrote:
When you talk about "American lives" being on the line, you are talking of mine. I have a vested interest in this issue and my country and I take its defense very seriously. I am a soldier. It is my job, my calling, my duty and my life.
Thank you Captain. Both for your words and your actions.
Of all the posts I've read on this thread, this one has effected me the most emotionally. I confess to getting a bit sappy at time, but your words filled me with pride for our country and military.
I toss my cookies for Disney.
I wonder what inspired this new Disney T-shirt? "I'm right. You're wrong. Any Questions?"
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Francine
Super Moderator
Posts: 1309
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 01:11 PM
quote:
Robin wrote:
Thank you Captain. Both for your words and your actions.
Of all the posts I've read on this thread, this one has effected me the most emotionally. I confess to getting a bit sappy at time, but your words filled me with pride for our country and military.
Ditto what Robin said. Captain, you will be in my daily prayers. Your words spoke volumes to me, and truely touched my heart. God Bless you.
Francine
Come and visit my other home on the internet Our Laughing Place
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 01:13 PM
I'm very glad Captain weighed in on this because I'm going to be one of the first people who say "You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs". I am VERY aware that American servicemen and women will be killed by the thousands in this war, just as I'm going to be taking alot of flak when I post on BB's that deaths are common in war.
I'm the "all-or-nothing" person, remember? If and when this war gets up and running, I'm not going to be one of the one on the sidelines crying for the dead...which is why I'm urging cooler heads to prevail BEFORE things get going. The time for reason is now because when the missiles start flying and the bullets start hitting home, reason goes right out the window and orders must be followed no matter who gets killed.
In 1991, people were actually appalled that US troops got killed. HELLO?!?!?! IT'S A FREAKIN' WAR! People are going to be killed. It's going to happen. That's what war is and the reason why no one in their right mind would want to wage a war. One of my biggest fears is that since so few were killed in 1991, Americans will think this is going to be another "surgical bombing" with very few fatalities.
Nuh-uh.
This time around, I think it's gonna get bloody...very bloody, and unless the jerks in Washington advertising and pumping this war are flown to Iraq to fight themselves, I think the US should abide by whatever resolution the UN decrees.
And one last thing before I go:
The last time people were whooping and hollaring and confidently saying they were going to kick some butt and do it proper, they fought on the side of the Southland and Dixie fell. We would do well to remember that because history forgotten is history repeated.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 01:24 PM
LL said-
quote:
The last time people were whooping and hollaring and confidently saying they were going to kick some butt and do it proper, they fought on the side of the Southland and Dixie fell.
The South never wanted to 'kick some butt'. They just wanted to be left alone. It was the Union forces that encouraged civilians from Washington to follow the Army of the Potomac out to Mannasas Junction to have a nice picnic and watch the Rebels get whupped.
Many of the panicked Federal troops beat the civilians back to Washington after the ass-kicking that became known as '1st Bull Run'.
Trust me on this. Shelby Foote is God, imo.
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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TrpltJanie
Cast Member
Posts: 1661
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 01:31 PM
Captain--
Thank you for taking the time in typing up an articulate and thought provoking message to explain your side of this situation. Please know that you, your fellow soldiers,and your family and THEIR families are in our prayers.
Thank you.
(edited to fix a few mistakes....)
[Edited by TrpltJanie]
Janie
The Curb Kicker
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Crank
Administrator
Posts: 1957
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 02:05 PM
quote:
Lunarlady wrote:
I'm very glad Captain weighed in on this because I'm going to be one of the first people who say "You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs". I am VERY aware that American servicemen and women will be killed by the thousands in this war, just as I'm going to be taking alot of flak when I post on BB's that deaths are common in war.
Sorry, there's no "nice" way to say this. Utter bullshit.
quote:
I'm the "all-or-nothing" person, remember? If and when this war gets up and running, I'm not going to be one of the one on the sidelines crying for the dead...which is why I'm urging cooler heads to prevail BEFORE things get going. The time for reason is now because when the missiles start flying and the bullets start hitting home, reason goes right out the window and orders must be followed no matter who gets killed.
I suggest you try to reason with Saddam Hussein.
Really, LL, are you so naive that you think there will be NO dead bodies if Iraq is not brought into check?
Sincerely I would love to live in that world! Unfortunately, I'm stuck in the real one.
quote:
In 1991, people were actually appalled that US troops got killed. HELLO?!?!?! IT'S A FREAKIN' WAR! People are going to be killed. It's going to happen. That's what war is and the reason why no one in their right mind would want to wage a war. One of my biggest fears is that since so few were killed in 1991, Americans will think this is going to be another "surgical bombing" with very few fatalities.
Do you know something we don't? The UN forces are gonna toss the smart weapons, turn the radar off, ground all aircraft and issue longswords and maces?
We are fully ten years of technology ahead of our position during Desert Storm. TEN YEARS. It will be a long while until ground troops are engaged.
quote:
Nuh-uh.
This time around, I think it's gonna get bloody...very bloody, and unless the jerks in Washington advertising and pumping this war are flown to Iraq to fight themselves, I think the US should abide by whatever resolution the UN decrees.
I heartily agree ie; the resolution.
quote:
And one last thing before I go:
The last time people were whooping and hollaring and confidently saying they were going to kick some butt and do it proper, they fought on the side of the Southland and Dixie fell. We would do well to remember that because history forgotten is history repeated.
Who's whooping and hollaring? Perhaps the whooping and hollaring you're hearing is drowning out the cries of the dying, downtrodden, tortured and oppressed?
Pardon my lack of tact...
I like persons better than principles, and I like persons with no principles better than anything else in the world.
Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891
BOYCOTT FRENCH TOAST, GERMAN SAUSAGE AND BELGIAN CHOCOLATES
Crank-->
All Content is © the Poster and is to be considered Intellectual Property. All Rights Reserved. Though Brilliant, Breathtaking and Extrememly Well Written the Content contained herein is Opinion and Opinion only.
ib4cruzn at charter dot net
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tomato
Cast Member
Posts: 14
Registered: Dec 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 02:26 PM
quote:
Lunarlady wrote:
I'm very glad Captain weighed in on this because I'm going to be one of the first people who say "You can't make an omelet without breaking eggs". I am VERY aware that American servicemen and women will be killed by the thousands in this war, just as I'm going to be taking alot of flak when I post on BB's that deaths are common in war.
I'm the "all-or-nothing" person, remember? If and when this war gets up and running, I'm not going to be one of the one on the sidelines crying for the dead...which is why I'm urging cooler heads to prevail BEFORE things get going. The time for reason is now because when the missiles start flying and the bullets start hitting home, reason goes right out the window and orders must be followed no matter who gets killed.
In 1991, people were actually appalled that US troops got killed. HELLO?!?!?! IT'S A FREAKIN' WAR! People are going to be killed. It's going to happen. That's what war is and the reason why no one in their right mind would want to wage a war. One of my biggest fears is that since so few were killed in 1991, Americans will think this is going to be another "surgical bombing" with very few fatalities.
Nuh-uh.
This time around, I think it's gonna get bloody...very bloody, and unless the jerks in Washington advertising and pumping this war are flown to Iraq to fight themselves, I think the US should abide by whatever resolution the UN decrees.
And one last thing before I go:
The last time people were whooping and hollaring and confidently saying they were going to kick some butt and do it proper, they fought on the side of the Southland and Dixie fell. We would do well to remember that because history forgotten is history repeated.
Well said!!
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Mike
Cast Member
Posts: 318
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 02:37 PM
Captain,
Amen.
God bless and protect you and all of your fellow servicemen and women.
Thank you.
Somebody there is playing with a kinked slinky!
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Crank
Administrator
Posts: 1957
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 02:38 PM
Good, bad, right or wrong I pray for a peaceful solution.
I would think this is one thing we can all agree on...
I like persons better than principles, and I like persons with no principles better than anything else in the world.
Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891
BOYCOTT FRENCH TOAST, GERMAN SAUSAGE AND BELGIAN CHOCOLATES
Crank-->
All Content is © the Poster and is to be considered Intellectual Property. All Rights Reserved. Though Brilliant, Breathtaking and Extrememly Well Written the Content contained herein is Opinion and Opinion only.
ib4cruzn at charter dot net
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Belle
Cast Member
Posts: 319
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 03:03 PM
Thank you, Captain, for both your service to our country, and for your passionate and articulate response on this issue.
I knew there was something I liked about you 
{hugs}
Belle
The red cowboy hat chick 
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 03:06 PM
Me too, Captain. But rest assured, you'd much rather hug Belle than me!
Seriously, Godspeed and be careful.
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-06-03 03:06 PM
quote:
Crank wrote:
Good, bad, right or wrong I pray for a peaceful solution.
I would think this is one thing we can all agree on...
Yes, I'll agree with y'all on that.
And Crank, please don't worry about upsetting me.
I'm a "5 minute mad" person. I'll blow up, then once
it's out of my system, I've forgotten what it was
I was mad about in the first place. Besides, I've
heard the word "bullshit" before and it hasn't curled
my hair yet.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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