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Common
Ground / Out Back
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Francine
Super Moderator
Posts: 1309
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 10:08 AM
Please, everyone, take a moment today to pray for peace.
At 10:30 AM est Secretary of State Colin Powell will address the U. N. Security Council. This is it, folks. War is very close at hand.
Our local reserve base is up 24 hours a day now. We hear the C5s flying over all night. Those babies are loud, and you can't miss them. They stop here to refuel, from bases all over the country, on route to points unknown, in the middle east.
God Bless the USA, and all those who serve in the armed forces.
Francine
Come and visit my other home on the internet Our Laughing Place
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 10:15 AM
I used to be a supporter of the Iraqi war last year. Then the economy took a nosedive and I wanted Bush to start putting a priority on home matters first.
I don't think I'm alone. I suspect many Americans do NOT support this war. I'm not out protesting because I feel protests aren't productive, but I can't help notice that the stock market plunges every time Bush gives a public statement.
This war may be Bush's last hurrah and his last chance at being a "war" president. I doubt seriously that he'll be known for anything 10 years from now even if he WAS the sitting president during a war.
But thanks for the tip. I'll make sure the news is on for the next few hours.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 10:44 AM
I hope to hell the evidence they've presented so far isn't the best they have to offer. Smoke rings. I've only heard the two audios and they could be talking about ANYTHING in those.
I'm gettin' mad. I don't think Powell has anything, yet they're trying to tell us what we should be seeing. 
[Edited by Lunarlady]
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 11:08 AM
CNN transcript (so far) of Powell's sales job:
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/02/05/sp...ript/index.html
It's woefully behind, but once they get it fully transcribed, those of you at work will be able to see what he was talking about.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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tomato
Cast Member
Posts: 14
Registered: Dec 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 11:54 AM
quote:
Lunarlady wrote:
I hope to hell the evidence they've presented so far isn't the best they have to offer. Smoke rings. I've only heard the two audios and they could be talking about ANYTHING in those.
I'm gettin' mad. I don't think Powell has anything, yet they're trying to tell us what we should be seeing.
[Edited by Lunarlady]
If you read between the lines he is giving a clarion call to Europe to pull their heads out of their collective a**'s and stop the radical "islamic" tide from roling over them. Every country is at risk of attack not just the USA.
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 11:57 AM
I've now seen the whole sales pitch. I sure hope the UN sees it for what it was:
A sales pitch.
That whole thing was skewed and slewed to scare the hell out of the gen pop while showing us pictures and presumptions that, frankly, did not impress me one bit. It was mostly conjecture and I doubt the validity of the "eye witnesses" Mr. Powell spoke of.
I'm going to have to agree with the Ambassador of China and hope that the UN will do whatever is necessary to avoid Bush's War.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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Francine
Super Moderator
Posts: 1309
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 11:58 AM
It was a good speech, very powerful. His argument as to why we can not succeed in disarming Iraq was very good. Do I want to go to war? No. Do I believe there is any alternative to war at this point? No, I do not. Can we really risk trusting Iraq to not use the weapons that they have access to? I don't think so. I believe they have the capabilities to do major damage world wide, and that they need to be stopped.
Francine
Come and visit my other home on the internet Our Laughing Place
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:00 PM
quote:
tomato wrote:
If you read between the lines he is giving a clarion call to Europe to pull their heads out of their collective a**'s and stop the radical "islamic" tide from roling over them. Every country is at risk of attack not just the USA.
I would not want to base the deaths of thousands of US soldiers on "reading between the lines". That would be lunacy.
The UN and intelligent citizens are entitled to positive proof of Iraq's intentions. I don't feel that Powell presented positive, irrefutable proof. The fact that he had to tell us what we were looking at and apologize for the quality of pictures (in this day and age of fantastic technological advances) indicates to me that there's only smoke....no smoking gun.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:06 PM
quote:
Francine wrote:
It was a good speech, very powerful. His argument as to why we can not succeed in disarming Iraq was very good.
Francine
I agree, Francine. It was a very powerful speech. I feel it was written that way by attorneys and professional speech writers.
He almost had me when he said Iraq was refusing to allow jets to fly overhead to photograph. That seemed wrong to me.
But before I got embroiled in the emotional aspect, I recalled that everything Iraq is doing right now would be things the United States would do in the exact same situation. WE would also be hiding our defenses. WE would also be somewhat co-operative with visiting inspecters, but would only answer direct questions and not volunteer information.
I'm not sure what the answer is. That's for the UN to decide. However I'm hoping they don't let emotion guide them. I feel Powell's speech was to accomplish two agendas:
1). Present what evidence the US has to bolster our agenda in starting a war.
2). Whip the US population up so that the lagging numbers supporting a war would start to go up.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:10 PM
Colin is trying to make amends for one of the biggest blunders in American foreign/military policy- Advising George H Bush to end the war in '91 before the Republican Guard was destroyed. Those troops were used to stomp the insurection by the Kurds in the north and the Shia muslims in the south, who sought to depose Hussein.
I don't want war either, but Saddam needs to be made dead.
After what I watched him do from 1981 thru '91, there's no doubt in my mind that if he doesn't directly utilize any WMD that he develops (again), he'll put them into someone elses hands, like Al Quada or Hezbollah.
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:11 PM
Wanna know what REALLY pisses me off? Reporters.
I WAS watching this thing on MSNBC because they had fewer distractions on the screen, but had to switch back to CNN because MSNBC started having reporter commentary and interviews when the opinions that REALLY mattered (reactions from members of the UN) were still going on.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:14 PM
quote:
Ajax wrote:
I don't want war either, but Saddam needs to be made dead.
After what I watched him do from 1981 thru '91, there's no doubt in my mind that if he doesn't directly utilize any WMD that he develops (again), he'll put them into someone elses hands, like Al Quada or Hezbollah.
This will sound slimey and underhanded, but I feel the answer to this lies in the hands of the Black Ops commanders. I'm pretty sure we have capability of sending in assassins. The public doesn't need to know everything.
It is my hopes that our country and/or another country will send in assassins to take him and his high-level buddies out of the picture. But I'm not going to hold my breath. If we haven't found and executed Osama Bin Ladin over a year after the WTC, why should I have any confidence in the assurances of our Government now?
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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TrpltJanie
Cast Member
Posts: 1661
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:18 PM
quote:
Lunarlady wrote:
Wanna know what REALLY pisses me off? Reporters.
I WAS watching this thing on MSNBC because they had fewer distractions on the screen, but had to switch back to CNN because MSNBC started having reporter commentary and interviews when the opinions that REALLY mattered (reactions from members of the UN) were still going on.
Same here. I don't want THEIR input. Just gimme the facts and I'll decide.
If war happens--then I'm going to do what someone else said to me yesterday:
Love the American soldier but HATE the war. Bush and Clinton had the chance to kick some asses but didn't.
(sighing)
All I can think is this: What kind of a world are we leaving for our children?
Janie
The Curb Kicker
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Francine
Super Moderator
Posts: 1309
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:19 PM
quote:
Ajax wrote:
Colin is trying to make amends for one of the biggest blunders in American foreign/military policy- Advising George H Bush to end the war in '91 before the Republican Guard was destroyed.
I absolutely agree with you, Ajax.
Francine
Come and visit my other home on the internet Our Laughing Place
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:21 PM
DAMMIT!!
I just had to find C-Span on my lineup and switch over to that. I don't give a fucking rat's ass about interviews and reporter theory, dammit. I want info from the horse's mouth and I want to know the pulse of UN, not the damn network's version.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:21 PM
Yeah, LL. America's 'Brain Trust' at work. One of my favorite moments by those fools was during Desert Storm when a New York Times reporter asked General 'PX' Kelly if it would be 'Possible to post tommorrows target list so we can get our background work prepared'. He just chuckled and went on to the next question.
Another asked 'What Iraqi anti-aircraft weapon has been most effective?', and another brain-surgeon asked 'Why can't we broadcast where the Scuds are landing?'.
I don't understand why those people were even allowed to attend another briefing after those gems.
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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VanBrujah
Cast Member
Posts: 421
Registered: Sep 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:23 PM
Well, there you have it.
King George the Unelected will wind up having his way, thousands of American soldiers will die so Uncle Dick the Warmonger can get his Halliburton buddies some business, and all the oil guys can get richer.
God help us all - we're going to need it.
VB
I wouldn't F*@k RiRi with KUH'S Di@k!
and now, name that quote:
"What the F*@k?
You mean you found out I did it?
You can't post that!
I'M TELLING!!"
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TrpltJanie
Cast Member
Posts: 1661
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:26 PM
quote:
Lunarlady wrote:
I just had to find C-Span on my lineup and switch over to that. I don't give a fucking rat's ass about interviews and reporter theory, dammit. I want info from the horse's mouth and I want to know the pulse of UN, not the damn network's version.
SLAP!
Feel better? No?
SLAP!
Janie
The Curb Kicker
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:26 PM
Stupid idiots. I propose we send the reporters in for an exclusive...strapped to the outer hulls of scud missiles.
I need to work out and get rid of some of this frustration.
I'm happy to say that C-Span is broadcasting reactions from members of the UN WITHOUT the annoying competing voices of speaker and interpretter. I am hoping, praying and expecting the UN will keep a level head and NOT endorse US aggressions. Some of them (at this early time) are asking to be allowed to review the US's "proof" and make a decision later.
**edited for Janie**
No, I don't feel better. But I will after a good workout.
[Edited by Lunarlady]
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:26 PM
LL wrote-
quote:
This will sound slimey and underhanded, but I feel the answer to this lies in the hands of the Black Ops commanders. I'm pretty sure we have capability of sending in assassins. The public doesn't need to know everything.
He's a hard target. He rarely appears in public, uses 'one-time' cell phones, broadcasts all his speeches with at least a days delay, and has upwards of 20 doubles.
BTW, I live for slimey & underhanded. It saves a lot of the average GI's lives.
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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Crank
Administrator
Posts: 1957
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:29 PM
To be honest, I thought Powell's statement was quite compelling and irrefutable.
Do I want to go to war? No. Only a fool would. Will I support our Country in doing so. One hundred percent.
I would be interested to hear why some folks believe the Secretarys statements were not truthful. Especially:
If not meant for enriching uranium, what use is to be made of the extremely high tolerance aluminum cylinders (when ordinary production cylinders could be used if, in fact, they will be using them for the purposes they propose)?
Why were the UNSCOM Inspectors denied access in the first place?
What happened to the tons of chem/bio agents Iraq openly admits to stockpiling?
If not used to manufacture chem/bio agents, what are they making with the mobile laboratories? If you think they are NOT mobile labs, what do you think they are and why were they made mobile?
Now for the question that is asked time and again:
If not now, when? If not us, who?
I like persons better than principles, and I like persons with no principles better than anything else in the world.
Oscar Wilde, The Picture of Dorian Gray, 1891
BOYCOTT FRENCH TOAST, GERMAN SAUSAGE AND BELGIAN CHOCOLATES
Crank-->
All Content is © the Poster and is to be considered Intellectual Property. All Rights Reserved. Though Brilliant, Breathtaking and Extrememly Well Written the Content contained herein is Opinion and Opinion only.
ib4cruzn at charter dot net
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TrpltJanie
Cast Member
Posts: 1661
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:30 PM
quote:
Lunarlady wrote:
Stupid idiots. I propose we send the reporters in for an exclusive...strapped to the outer hulls of scud missiles.
Ooooooo now that is a good plan. I wanna strap Howard Stern to a missle...
I'm happy to say that C-Span is broadcasting reactions from members of the UN WITHOUT the annoying competing voices of speaker and interpretter. I am hoping, praying and expecting the UN will keep a level head and NOT endorse US aggressions. Some of them (at this early time) are asking to be allowed to review the US's "proof" and make a decision later.
**edited for Janie**
No, I don't feel better. But I will after a good
workout.
Wanna babysit my triplets? They'll give you a
GOOD workout! Thank heavens for PRESCHOOL! (face
twitching)
[Edited by Lunarlady]
Janie
The Curb Kicker
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Ajax
Cast Member
Posts: 1032
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:39 PM
Crank wrote
quote:
If not us, who?
Sure as hell not the French. Evidently they've forgotten the Algerian Islamists who were busted before they could fly a 727 into the Eifel Tower. I can't wait for the next time the Germans decide to use them for a door mat. They're on their own, imo.
Did you see me at EPCOT on New Years Eve? I was wearing a yellow poncho...
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:39 PM
quote:
Crank wrote:
I would be interested to hear why some folks believe the Secretarys statements were not truthful.
Bush wants a war. He's been chomping at the bit to promote a war since last fall. I feel Colon Powell was thrown in to further promote Bush's agenda.
quote:
Crank wrote:
If not meant for enriching uranium, what use is to be made of the extremely high tolerance aluminum cylinders (when ordinary production cylinders could be used if, in fact, they will be using them for the purposes they propose)?
We only have the word of a defected Iraqi that the picture showing a truck did, indeed, carry cylinders.
quote:
Crank wrote: Why were the UNSCOM Inspectors denied access in the first place?
The United States would ALSO have denied access to foreigners wanting to examine our defensive capabilities. This is a no brainer.
quote:
Crank wrote: What happened to the tons of chem/bio agents Iraq openly admits to stockpiling?
When did Iraq openly admit to anything?
quote:
Crank wrote: If not used to manufacture chem/bio agents, what are they making with the mobile laboratories? If you think they are NOT mobile labs, what do you think they are and why were they made mobile?
Again, we only have the word of a defected Iraqi who might have an ax to grind with his ex-father-in-law. Are we going to base the loss of American lives on the word of such a man?
quote:
Crank wrote: Now for the question that is asked time and again:
If not now, when? If not us, who?
This can be done now, but it must be done through the unanimous front of the UN. With all the problems facing the United States at this time, we have no business policing the world.
That question you ask, in the framework in which it's asked, is designed to elicit a prescribed response.
If not now, when? Who knows? If you want an answer to the future, ask a psychic.
If not us, who? Who decided that we were to be the saviors of the world? We can't even manage ourselves properly, why would we be so arrogant as to think that we have any right to leglislate the rest of the world?
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
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TrpltJanie
Cast Member
Posts: 1661
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:42 PM
quote:
Ajax wrote:
LL wrote-
He's a hard target. He rarely appears in public, uses 'one-time' cell phones, broadcasts all his speeches with at least a days delay, and has upwards of 20 doubles.
BTW, I live for slimey & underhanded. It saves a lot of the average GI's lives.
Could we pool our money together and sponsor Saddam the dammned dork's trip to WDW? I'm sure that the Small World ride can reduce him into a bathering idiot and the world is saved!
Janie
The Curb Kicker
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Robb
Super Moderator
Posts: 423
Registered: Sep 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:43 PM
quote:
Ajax wrote:
Sure as hell not the French. Evidently they've forgotten the Algerian Islamists who were busted before they could fly a 727 into the Eifel Tower. I can't wait for the next time the Germans decide to use them for a door mat. They're on their own, imo.
As long as we aren't pumping oil in France, they will be ignored...
Dad Extraordinaire
DCL Board Moderator
VISIT THE DCL BOARD TODAY!
Andy's Dad
Krispy Kreme Addict
Dog Named Walt
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Coastalwader
Cast Member
Posts: 935
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:43 PM
quote:
Ajax wrote:
Colin is trying to make amends for one of the biggest blunders in American foreign/military policy- Advising George H Bush to end the war in '91 before the Republican Guard was destroyed. Those troops were used to stomp the insurection by the Kurds in the north and the Shia muslims in the south, who sought to depose Hussein.
I don't want war either, but Saddam needs to be made dead.
After what I watched him do from 1981 thru '91, there's no doubt in my mind that if he doesn't directly utilize any WMD that he develops (again), he'll put them into someone elses hands, like Al Quada or Hezbollah.
That pretty much sums up my take too.
King Unca Bubba Lord DisneyTex
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Lunarlady
Cast Member
Posts: 1629
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:44 PM
Actually, I liked France's response. Thankfully most of the UN is urging resolution in a peaceful manner if possible.
The United States is only ONE of the countries occupying this planet. We are not the ONLY country and it would behoove us to remember that during these stressful times.
A whole week of peaceful bliss, beginning with a giggle
and ending with a kiss. |
|
Mike
Cast Member
Posts: 318
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:49 PM
I'm with Crank.
I have no doubt Saddam will use any weapon he has and will continue, with others, to underhandedly fund and support terrorism. So it's now or later.
If we do nothing and another major terrorist attack takes a bunch or American lives, we'll be blaming Bush for not doing enough. It's so easy to blame.
And I don't expect to see the evidence. Revealing some of the evidence compromises the source and the tactics to get it. Just like we can't tell the reporters everything, we have to be careful what we reveal that exposes or compromises our sources.
It's a fine line. The longer we wait the more ready they will be and the harder it will be. Sorry, but that's MHO.
Somebody there is playing with a kinked slinky!
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Coastalwader
Cast Member
Posts: 935
Registered: Aug 2002
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Posted 02-05-03 12:51 PM
quote:
VanBrujah wrote:
Well, there you have it.
King George the Unelected will wind up having his way, thousands of American soldiers will die so Uncle Dick the Warmonger can get his Halliburton buddies some business, and all the oil guys can get richer.
God help us all - we're going to need it.
VB
You know, I find the "oil war" take kind of facinating.
Not in the sense that "it's all about the oil" might not lack some merit, but in how who benefits the most from oil is interpreted and who realy has the most to lose or gain.
Next time you are at the pump, take a look at that little sticker that discloses how much and who recieves all the taxes generated per gallon of gas. The bottom line is when it comes down to who will benefit the most from protecting anybody's oil interests, it is the Federal Govt. One of the single biggest sources of revenue outside personal income tax. There is no way in hell the feds will allow that huge source of income to come under any kind of threat.
King Unca Bubba Lord DisneyTex
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